Legislature(2011 - 2012)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)

03/28/2012 08:00 AM Senate EDUCATION


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08:07:02 AM Start
08:07:23 AM Center for Alaska Education Policy Research Proposal for a Study of School Finance in Alaska
09:00:44 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: School Finance Study Proposal TELECONFERENCED
Center for Alaska Education Policy Research
(CAEPR), Institute of Social and Economic
Research, UAA
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE EDUCATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 28, 2012                                                                                         
                           8:07 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Joe Thomas, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Bettye Davis, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION: CENTER FOR ALASKA EDUCATION POLICY RESEARCH                                                                       
SCHOOL FINANCE STUDY PROPOSAL                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DIANE HIRSHBERG, Associate Professor of Education Policy                                                                        
University of Alaska Anchorage                                                                                                  
Institute of Social and Economic Research                                                                                       
Center for Alaska Education Policy Research                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented School Finance Study Proposal.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ALEXANDRA HILL, Senior Research Associate                                                                                       
University of Alaska Anchorage                                                                                                  
Institute of Social and Economic Research                                                                                       
Center for Alaska Education Policy Research                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented School Finance Study Proposal.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
LAWRENCE O. PICUS, PhD.                                                                                                         
Lawrence O. Picus and Associates, LLC                                                                                           
Los Angeles, California                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented School Finance Study Proposal.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:07:02 AM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  JOE   THOMAS  called  the  Senate   Education  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 8:07  a.m. Present at the  call to                                                               
order were  Senators French, Stevens,  Davis, Co-Chair  Meyer and                                                               
Co-Chair Thomas.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
^Center  for  Alaska Education  Policy  Research  Proposal for  a                                                               
Study of School Finance in Alaska                                                                                               
          Center for Alaska Education Policy Research                                                                       
        Proposal for a Study of School Finance in Alaska                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:07:23 AM                                                                                                                  
CO-CHAIR THOMAS  announced the business before  the committee was                                                               
a presentation  from the UAA  Center for Alaska  Education Policy                                                               
Research  regarding  a  proposal  to study  school  financing  in                                                               
Alaska  in coordination  with Dr.  Lawrence  Picus. The  proposed                                                               
study would  try to  determine how much  Alaska should  invest in                                                               
its schools and it would look  at the strengths and weaknesses of                                                               
the existing system. He identified  the presenters and summarized                                                               
their professional credentials.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:10:14 AM                                                                                                                    
DIANE HIRSHBERG,  PhD., Associate Professor of  Education Policy,                                                               
Institute  of Social  and Economic  Research,  Center for  Alaska                                                               
Education   Policy  Research   (CAEPR),   University  of   Alaska                                                               
Anchorage, informed  the committee  that several years  ago CAEPR                                                               
did a  small project attempting to  apply Dr. Picus's model  in a                                                               
rural school  district. Since then  they had talked about  how to                                                               
expand the  model across the  state. This  year seemed to  be the                                                               
right  time to  propose this  research to  help the  legislature,                                                               
governor,  and  state  education leadership  make  more  informed                                                               
choices  about funding  levels  for schools  and  to inform  best                                                               
practices for distribution of those funds.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The proposed study would have two parts as follows:                                                                             
   1. Estimate how much Alaska should spend to meet the K12                                                                     
     educational  needs  of  its   diverse  population  using  an                                                               
     evidence-based  school finance  model,  modified to  reflect                                                               
     the  state's  unique  characteristics  and  work  previously                                                               
     done, particularly  by Ms. Hill. Experts  and key informants                                                               
     in  the state  will review  that initial  draft and  provide                                                               
     thoughtful  feedback. The  model would  be revised  based on                                                               
     that data and taking into  account a range of Alaskan issues                                                               
     including  salary differentials,  energy  prices and  health                                                               
     care that  vary by district.  The result would  be estimates                                                               
     of the cost  of an adequate education under a  range of cost                                                               
     scenarios.                                                                                                                 
   2. Work with experts in the state to identify areas where                                                                    
     economies  of  scale  could help  small  districts  be  more                                                               
     efficient.  CAEPR  will  have  conversations  with  district                                                               
     fiscal  and operations  staff  and  department of  education                                                               
     staff  to find  areas where  this is  already happening  and                                                               
     explore options for more efficient spending in other areas.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  HIRSHBERG said  CAEPR would  then present  the model  to the                                                               
commissioner  of education,  the legislature,  and the  governor.                                                               
She said  that the  study could  be done over  the summer  and be                                                               
ready to present before the next legislative session.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked Ms. Hill if she had anything to add.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:16:29 AM                                                                                                                    
ALEXANDRA HILL,  Senior Research  Associate, Institute  of Social                                                               
and  Economic  Research,  Center   for  Alaska  Education  Policy                                                               
Research (CAEPR),  University of  Alaska Anchorage, said  she was                                                               
available to answer questions.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  THOMAS asked  Dr. Picus  to provide  a synopsis  of his                                                               
findings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:16:57 AM                                                                                                                    
LAWRENCE O. PICUS,  PhD., Lawrence O. Picus  and Associates, LLC,                                                               
said that for several years his  company had worked with a number                                                               
of states to design school  funding systems to allocate resources                                                               
with a focus  on improving student performance. He said  he had a                                                               
general understanding of the Alaska  funding formulas but not the                                                               
specific details.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DR. LAWRENCE  said the primary  question that the  proposed study                                                               
aimed  to  answer was  if  the  base  foundation amount  and  the                                                               
adjustments provide districts adequate  resources to put in place                                                               
a program  of studies that  would give reasonable  assurance that                                                               
children  would be  able to  learn  the material  to the  state's                                                               
standards. He  said the model  thinks hard about how  to allocate                                                               
professional development  funds and how to  work with individuals                                                               
in districts  to be sure there  is an understanding of  what each                                                               
district needs to help children succeed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:19:44 AM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MEYER  asked if this study  would be similar to  the one                                                               
that ISER  did about 10  years ago, and if  she was aware  of the                                                               
differences of opinion in the  legislature this year on education                                                               
funding.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILL  said the current  proposal was very different  from the                                                               
previous study.  The earlier school  cost study grew out  of work                                                               
done by the  American Institute of Research to  build the current                                                               
foundation formula. A former ISER  professor contracted to review                                                               
the  study  and  he  identified  some  issues  that  reflected  a                                                               
misunderstanding  of the  Alaska context.  ISER subsequently  was                                                               
asked to reevaluate  the data that went into  the geographic cost                                                               
differential in  the current formula.  Dr. Picus's model  takes a                                                               
bigger picture look,  asking how much districts  should spend and                                                               
how to make that determination.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:24:17 AM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MEYER  asked about  how to measure  the result  of using                                                               
the proposed model.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR.  PICUS  explained  that  he   looks  for  studies  that  used                                                               
experimental design,  educational research that used  other study                                                               
designs,  and   successful  teaching   experiences  to   come  to                                                               
conclusions about programs and ideas  that work. The next step is                                                               
to organize a school to  provide those resources, focusing on how                                                               
to  use  the  people  in  the school.  The  number  of  teachers,                                                               
additional  support  personnel,   the  administrative  structure,                                                               
dollar   resources   for  instructional   materials   technology,                                                               
operations, and maintenance all go  into the mix to determine the                                                               
cost for each  school in the district. Add the  district costs to                                                               
come up with a total cost for the state.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR. PICUS  said Alaska was unique  but in terms of  distances and                                                               
remoteness, it was similar to  Wyoming where his company had done                                                               
a great  deal of work.  He discussed  the work he  did previously                                                               
with Dr. Lawrence and Ms. Hill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:30:50 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS asked  him  to  comment on  the  role of  school                                                               
boards and the  issue of combining small school  districts in the                                                               
context of economies of scale.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR.  PICUS said  he tries  not to  study or  make recommendations                                                               
about  the  structure or  organization  of  school districts.  He                                                               
could show the estimated costs in  each of the districts and then                                                               
it  would  be a  state  policy  decision  about whether  to  make                                                               
changes  and if  any substantial  savings would  result. Even  if                                                               
districts  were consolidated,  there would  still be  the immense                                                               
issues of distance, geography, and remoteness.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Responding to  a further  question about  economies of  scale, he                                                               
said he  was talking  about the diseconomies  of scale  that come                                                               
with  very small  organizational structures,  and that  the model                                                               
has to adjust for those diseconomies.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:36:17 AM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked if he uses specific measures of success.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR.  PICUS  answered  that  he looks  at  the  state  performance                                                               
assessment results and  at both high and  low performing schools.                                                               
He  looks for  schools that  are  improving and  scores that  are                                                               
rising, because that  is where to find how  to allocate resources                                                               
and be successful.  A number of schools in  Alaska could probably                                                               
be used  as examples to  find the right combination  of resources                                                               
that would work  in Alaska schools. In looking at  what the state                                                               
sets  as  standards,  he measures  test  scores,  dropout  rates,                                                               
attendance  rates.  He  acknowledged  those are  issues  in  many                                                               
districts in Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR THOMAS commented that CAEPR had its work cut out.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. PICUS  said he  understood that  another challenge  in Alaska                                                               
was that  many districts in  rural areas had  substantial teacher                                                               
turnover issues.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked if he  had thought about distance education                                                               
in  Alaska. He  offered  his  belief that  there  were many  good                                                               
teachers   throughout  Alaska   and   their   classes  could   be                                                               
transmitted  to  areas that  couldn't  afford  a broad  range  of                                                               
expertise on site.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:41:30 AM                                                                                                                    
DR.  PICUS  agreed that  technology  made  it feasible  to  offer                                                               
alternatives  in   small  communities,  but  that   for  distance                                                               
education  to  be  successful  it  was  necessary  to  provide  a                                                               
mechanism  to   ensure  quality  assurance.  The   department  of                                                               
education or  some other state  agency could vet the  programs to                                                               
ensure that  they met the  standards that Alaska  had established                                                               
for the  particular area  of study. He  acknowledged that  he did                                                               
not  know if  all school  districts had  Internet access,  but it                                                               
could be an issue.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR THOMAS  questioned whether young Alaska  students living                                                               
in remote  rural areas  would find  distance courses  relevant if                                                               
they emphasized  different cultural and  regional characteristics                                                               
and used different terminology. For  example, a child living in a                                                               
small village  might not relate to  the concept of a  city block.                                                               
He  asked Dr.  Picus if  he had  run into  that situation  in the                                                               
Lower 48.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR.  PICUS answered  no,  but that  circumstance  someone in  the                                                               
classroom would  need to translate  the concept to  something the                                                               
students understand.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:46:36 AM                                                                                                                    
DR.  HIRSHBERG added  that  when the  study  was finished,  CAEPR                                                               
would have a  recommendation about what the  funding level should                                                               
be.  It  would  be  a  separate  conversation  to  continue  with                                                               
technical assistance  and ensure that districts  and schools used                                                               
the  money  as intended.  With  regard  to the  discussion  about                                                               
distance  education, she  said there  were other  flexible models                                                               
such as short-term  boarding programs where students  could go to                                                               
hub communities  for a few  weeks to  get an intensive  course in                                                               
chemistry, biology, or physics,  for example. She reiterated that                                                               
the  current proposal  focused on  ways to  distribute resources,                                                               
and it  was a separate conversation  to look at how  the money is                                                               
actually spent in the districts.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
She  expressed  hope that  the  study  would lead  to  additional                                                               
conversations, and  noted that  the conversations  were happening                                                               
because of  the Moore Case  settlement. She said that  because of                                                               
the  new standards,  the timing  was right  to generate  the link                                                               
between  the resources  and the  innovative  programs that  would                                                               
help students achieve.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:50:10 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. HILL  addressed Senator Steven's question  about economies of                                                               
scale. She explained that the second  part of the study wasn't so                                                               
much  about   economies  of  scale  by   combining  districts  as                                                               
eliminating diseconomies of scale.  She cited two examples. First                                                               
was placing  one fuel order  for three adjacent  districts rather                                                               
than  placing three  orders. The  second was  making the  state's                                                               
longitudinal  data system  available  to all  small districts  to                                                               
input student data and extract needed reports.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  THOMAS  asked  if  they   were  aware  of  the  Finland                                                               
experiment.  That country  decided  to concentrate  on its  human                                                               
resources and  make the  people of Finland  the best  educated in                                                               
the world.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. HIRSHBERG  said they had  not looked  at Finland as  a model,                                                               
but they  were watching how  countries around the  world approach                                                               
education   in  rural,   remote,   and  indigenous   communities.                                                               
Referencing  earlier questions  about engaging  local communities                                                               
and  making sure  that the  education  was culturally  responsive                                                               
while  preparing students  to compete  in a  global society,  she                                                               
said Greenland  was involved in  national education  reform. That                                                               
country has a  goal that all graduates will  speak Inuit, Danish,                                                               
and  English and  be able  to choose  what kind  of lifestyle  to                                                               
pursue.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
She said the infrastructure in  Alaska was getting better because                                                               
of companies like GCI, AT&T, and  ACS. They should be part of the                                                               
conversation because they were critical  in the effort to provide                                                               
quality  distance education  opportunities  for  students in  the                                                               
smallest, most remote schools.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:56:24 AM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR THOMAS  asked if  the study would  look at  the physical                                                               
aspects of buildings.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. PICUS said that is an  integral part of student learning, but                                                               
that would not be part of the proposed study.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  asked  how  distance  education  fit  into  the                                                               
current programs. He  said he'd heard many people say  it was the                                                               
answer,  but  his   belief  was  that  students   also  need  the                                                               
opportunity to  have mentors and  teachers in front of  the class                                                               
who teach and serve as role models.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. HIRSHBERG said  it was not a focus of  the CAEPR research per                                                               
se,  but  the  role  of   distance  education  versus  in  person                                                               
education  was   an  important  conversation  in   the  realm  of                                                               
technology  in education.  A  mixture works  best,  and most  K12                                                               
schools do not  have distance learning without an  adult on site.                                                               
She   said  she   didn't  know   how  schools   like  LKSD   were                                                               
accommodating student questions about  advanced courses that were                                                               
delivered online, but it did need clarification.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR THOMAS thanked the presenters.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:00:44 AM                                                                                                                    
Seeing  no further  business to  come before  the committee,  Co-                                                               
Chair Thomas  adjourned the  Senate Education  Standing Committee                                                               
meeting at 9:00 a.m.                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CAEPR Alaska school finance proposal final.pdf SEDC 3/28/2012 8:00:00 AM
CAEPR School Finance Proposal
Funding_Program_Overview_2012.pdf SEDC 3/28/2012 8:00:00 AM
Funding Program Overview